Source: New Zealand Parliament – Hansard
ORAL QUESTIONS
QUESTIONS TO MINISTERS
Question No. 1—Prime Minister
1. CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government’s statements and actions?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): Yes, particularly this Government’s efforts to support New Zealanders to stay in or obtain employment during economically unstable times. Policies such as the wage subsidy, flexi-wage, free apprenticeships, and Mana in Mahi continue to show their value as unemployment remains at record lows and workforce participation reaches the highest rates recorded since the household labour force survey began in 1986. Importantly, average ordinary time hourly earnings rose 7.4 percent in the year to September 2022. The volatile international environment continues to put pressure on prices, with the Ukraine war and pandemic-related supply constraints affecting fuel, food, and building material prices. New Zealand cannot escape these global pressures, but we are in a strong position to provide targeted support for New Zealand families, and that’s what we’re doing.
Christopher Luxon: Why, despite hiring more than 1,400 extra bureaucrats at the Ministry of Education, are half of secondary students not able to pass a basic NCEA maths test, while two-thirds can’t pass a basic writing test?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I will not term public servants in that way. I will not call 2,900 additional teachers, employed since 2017, “bureaucrats”. I will not call those additional staff that we have supported to provide specialist education needs and coordination of specialist education “bureaucrats”. They are people on the ground supporting our learners. Having said that, of course, over the course of COVID, we have seen an impact on young peoples’ learning. It’s being seen internationally; it was a significant theme at the UN General Assembly. And that is why we have provided targeted support for learners, including catch-up support, as they head into their examinations.
Christopher Luxon: Does she accept that her Government has failed to deliver for low-income families, when a staggering 98 percent of decile 1 students can’t pass a basic NCEA writing test?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No, I do not. And, of course, you can see from all of the targeted support that we have provided, in every case it has been about supporting those who have the least: our low and middle income families and, of course, their children. One of those projects—just one of them, for instance—has been free healthy lunches in schools, and I have had, on countless occasions, teachers and principals point out that that has improved, in some cases, the connection between their young people and school. Have we continued to see trends beyond New Zealand? Sure, around some of these issues, yes, but I absolutely refute the member’s suggestion that we have not worked hard to support those families.
Hon Chris Hipkins: Has the Prime Minister been informed that the entire cohort of students that we’re talking about, who are struggling with literacy and numeracy, did the entirety of their primary schooling during the era of national standards?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: This is not the only situation, yes—where I’ve often had criticism from a National Government for outcomes that were actually generated for the previous Government. We had the same thing happen for a number of years on child poverty rates, when we were accused, actually, of being the ones who produced those stats when they were all generated because of lag times under National. We are happy to debate education, on this side, but we won’t be held to account for outcomes that were ultimately generated through nine years of National being in charge of education.
Christopher Luxon: Has her Government also failed to deliver for Māori students, when only 38 percent could pass a basic NCEA maths test and less than one in four could pass a basic writing test?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I refer the member to the same answer I just gave. If the member wants to stand up and be accountable to those families for the fact that they went through the education period under a National Government, let’s have that debate. The stats that we own are the lowest Māori unemployment stats this country has had; those are the stats we own. Half of the Māori unemployment rate during this economic crisis than under the global financial crisis; those are the stats we own. He Poutama Rangatahi, Mana in Mahi; those are the stats we own.
Christopher Luxon: Can she confirm that since she took office, the proportion of students leaving school with at least NCEA level 1 has fallen for every single ethnic group, with Māori suffering the biggest drop in achievement of almost six percentage points?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: At this point, the member may wish to reflect on whether or not his line of questioning is helping him. I refer to the same answer. The stats have a lag, and that member needs to reflect on his Government’s record.
Hon Chris Hipkins: Has the Prime Minister been advised that one of the reasons NCEA pass rates went up under the last Government is that they made it easier to meet the literacy and numeracy requirements in order to get it?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes, and ultimately we need to make sure that our young people, when they go into the world, are genuinely prepared and that’s what we’re focused on.
Christopher Luxon: Why did the Government scrap the target for students leaving school with NCEA and does that explain why, after a decade of improvement under National, achievement has fallen across the board on her watch?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again, the member believes that every single outcome for a young person, for healthcare, for everything, is dictated by a target. Again, we’ve seen when that occurs—when you rule by targets—you see distortions and you see perverse behaviour. I’ll give you one example. On the occasion of that Government putting in targets in education around pass rates, schools stopped putting their children forward for exams. That was not the right approach, and yet that’s what those targets drove.
Christopher Luxon: If the Prime Minister doesn’t believe in targets, why does she have them for child poverty?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again, and I’ll stand by absolutely all of them because they have not produced distorted outcomes; they’ve produced investment in our young people. Because, when you measure child poverty, when you measure child poverty openly and objectively, then you drive change. When you create a distorted target that changes people’s behaviour, it means kids miss out.
Christopher Luxon: Can she name one thing her Government has done in the last five years that has actually lifted literacy and numeracy?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: If the member is willing to read any evidence, he’d understand that poverty is connected to educational outcomes, that employment is connected to educational outcomes, that decent housing is connected to educational outcomes. And on all nine poverty measures, we have reversed the increase so that our children, we know, are doing better in this country. We’ve put food in schools. We’ve put free period products into schools. We have increased Māori employment. We have changed the things that drive educational outcomes for our kids.
Christopher Luxon: How can the Government spend $5 billion a year more, hire 1,400 extra staff, and actually deliver worse attendance and worse and declining academic achievement?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member can continue to speak to his own record in education, because that is what he is doing, but all I hear right now is that you wish to sack the extra 3,000 teachers, you wish to sack those coordinators we’ve put in for our kids with special needs, that you wish to sack or reduce the pay of our teacher aides, because that is where our money has gone.
David Seymour: If the Prime Minister stands by her Government’s statements and actions, why does she believe people are voting with their feet as New Zealand loses a net 10,000 people a year compared with gaining 60,000 people a year on average for the decade prior?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We know that we are going to see a period of change post-COVID with the borders opening. But my recollection is that we’ve had, for instance, in just a short period of time, I believe, about 16,000 working holiday visas enter into New Zealand. New Zealanders are likely doing the same.
David Seymour: Can the Prime Minister accept that the net result of her Government’s policies over the last five years is that this country is losing a net 10,000 people a year where net migration has been positive for this country for practically its whole history?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: It is frankly ridiculous, in a short period after having borders closed for the better part of two years, to make an assessment about the final net growth or net loss for New Zealand at this point in time. What I can tell you is that we have, for instance, currently 16,000 people who have arrived in New Zealand for our working holiday visas. We currently have 77,000 positions that are currently available for individuals to enter into New Zealand and take up work. I’m not going to take a snapshot in time in a huge period of flux.
Hon Michael Wood: Can the Prime Minister confirm that there was in fact a net outflow of New Zealand citizens for every recorded month from the beginning of the year 2000 to early 2020?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Whilst I do not have specific numbers in front of me, yes, I would confirm what the Minister of Immigration would share.
