Source: New Zealand Parliament – Hansard
Question No. 3—Children
3. TAMATHA PAUL (Green—Wellington Central) to the Minister for Children: Will private for-profit organisations be able to run military-style academies and use force against young people?
Hon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children): I want to make two points. Firstly, the member is referring to the development of a bill which is still subject to Cabinet consideration. Secondly, as is already publicly available, Cabinet has agreed that a military-style academy provider and their staff—whether Oranga Tamariki or another agency—would have the power to use minimum force as reasonably required. This would be to prevent a young person from being harmed, harming themselves, or harming others, or to stop them from absconding from any location. These are our most serious offenders, who must have committed at least two serious crimes with convictions of at least 10 years or more, which could be a range of things including sexual violence, aggravated robbery, or injury with intent to cause grievous bodily harm. We need to make sure that anyone working with them has the ability to keep themselves safe, keep the community safe, and keep other young people safe.
Tamatha Paul: Will she, in this House, promise that for-profit organisations will never run these military-style academies?
Hon KAREN CHHOUR: I would have thought that the member on the other side would have wanted to create any ability for iwi and hapū to have some involvement in self-determination for what happens to their young people. This will give them the ability to be able to run a programme in the future. [Interruption]
SPEAKER: Let’s wait for the House to calm down.
Tamatha Paul: If it was her intention to allow iwi and other community organisations to run these academies, then why didn’t she or her officials consult with them?
Hon KAREN CHHOUR: There is a process to go through when decisions are being made. No decisions have been made yet, and when those decisions can be spoken about, we will.
Tamatha Paul: How can she make the recommendation to Cabinet that third-party providers should be able to use force on young people, without speaking to the Children’s Commissioner, when there are very obvious children’s rights implications and risks from her proposal?
Hon KAREN CHHOUR: The Children’s Commissioner and I meet regularly face to face, and I always say to her if there’s any concerns that she would like to speak about, I’m open to speaking about them. If she raises this issue with me, I will speak to her about it.
Tamatha Paul: Does she support for-profit organisations being able to run military-style academies and use force against young people?
Hon KAREN CHHOUR: I would just like to reiterate again that it is the power to use minimum force as reasonably required. There are situations where young people may absconder, put themselves in danger, put the community in danger, and put a whole lot of people in circumstances that they shouldn’t be put in. So we need to make sure that staff have the ability to deal with that.
Tamatha Paul: Does she understand how disingenuous it looks to label something as a pilot and then seek Cabinet agreement to cement it in legislation before it’s even finished and before it’s even been evaluated?
Hon KAREN CHHOUR: Look, I’m proud of what we’ve achieved this year. I’m proud of the fact we’ve managed to step up a pilot, have 10 young people have a chance to turn their lives around, and invest in making sure they have every opportunity to be the best that they can be. I’m proud of that and I’m looking forward to seeing many more children have that opportunity.
