Source: New Zealand Parliament – Hansard
ORAL QUESTIONS
QUESTIONS TO MINISTERS
Question No. 1—Prime Minister
1. Rt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government’s statements and actions?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister): Yes, and especially our fast-track changes, which will make it much, much easier and much faster to get stuff done. We need more homes, we need more energy, more jobs, and more exports, and fast track will make it easier to deliver all of that and more. Fast track, of course, started life as an inspired piece of thinking from the “Piketty pirate” David Parker, and we have proudly stolen it and made it even better. Now we are making sensible changes—sensible changes—before it comes into law later this year, by shifting the decision making back to expert panels. So, if you care about climate change, care about energy security and a thriving economy, my message to Labour and the Greens is to get on board and vote for the fast-track legislation. [Interruption]
SPEAKER: Just before the supplementary gets asked, we are going to have a little bit more civility around the question and answer session. Some of that yelling out from over this side and the response from that side is not on.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Who is correct: Christopher Luxon, who said, “We’ve ended up creating a whole new series of addictions to nicotine that I think we’ll regret very strongly”, or Casey Costello, who received advice of an undisclosed provenance that was later forwarded to health officials, claiming “Nicotine is as harmful as caffeine”?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: We are doing the job in this Government of lowering daily smoking rates. We’ve made tremendous progress, and I know the Minister is working incredibly hard to do that.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Does he agree with Casey Costello that nicotine is as harmful as caffeine, and, if not, why is he comfortable with his Minister presenting that advice to officials to inform the development of future Government policy?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I’d just say to the member that Ministers are responsible for their own policy-development processes and how they work with their agencies, and each Minister will operate differently, as we have seen with Erica Stanford, as Minister of Education, operating very differently from that member as Minister of Education.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked him two things: one was whether he agreed with the statement, and the second was whether he was comfortable with his Minister presenting that advice to her officials to inform the development of Government policy. As he repeatedly does, he has attacked me but he hasn’t actually addressed the questions that I’ve asked.
SPEAKER: Well, look, I think there were two legs to the questioning. He picked up the second leg pretty well, saying that Ministers are responsible for their own programmes.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Does he agree with the Hon Casey Costello that nicotine is as harmful as caffeine?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: What we both agree about is that we’re going to lower daily smoking rates.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order, Mr Speaker. That wasn’t the question.
SPEAKER: I think the Prime Minister could perhaps address the question directly.
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Could he ask the question again?
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Does he agree with the Hon Casey Costello that nicotine is as harmful as caffeine?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I think that nicotine is more harmful than caffeine.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Who acted properly: Judith Collins, who warned Shane Jones and David Seymour that their criticism of the judiciary broke Cabinet Manual conventions, or Shane Jones, who renewed his attacks last week calling a High Court judge a communist?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: You’d have to ask the Minister about that, but what I’d say is that he was being descriptive, not critical.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order, Mr Speaker. When it comes questions of the Minister’s conduct, the Prime Minister cannot say, “You’d have to ask the Minister that.” The Prime Minister is responsible for the Minister’s conduct. A Minister calling a judge a communist—
SPEAKER: That’s true, but you did ask a very direct question. Think about how you ask the question and, without penalty, ask again.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Well, I can shorten the question if you’d like, Mr Speaker.
SPEAKER: Well, if you’re capable, go for it.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Is he comfortable with a Minister in his Government calling a judge a communist?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Sorry?
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Is he comfortable with a Minister in his Government calling a judge a communist?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: The Minister was being descriptive, not critical. [Interruption]
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order—[Interruption]
SPEAKER: We’re on a point of order, and I will call that point of order. I’d just say that you’re going to dance on a pin if we keep on having semantics around words—but please ask your point of order.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: This is a pretty substantial issue. There is a separation between the Parliament, between the executive, and the judiciary. It is well respected that not only Ministers but members of Parliament should not be criticising the judiciary. A Minister calling a judge a communist is a legitimate question to ask of the Prime Minister around ministerial conduct, and I think we could expect more than just a flippant answer like that.
SPEAKER: I don’t think it was a flippant answer. The answer was that he was being descriptive, not accusatory, which is a pretty reasonable answer.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Is it acceptable for a Minister in his Government to describe a judge as a communist?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Again, the comments are descriptive, not critical. That’s exactly what has happened. It’s on the public record. They might not be the words that I’d use, but he’s perfectly free to do so.
Hon David Seymour: Is the Prime Minister surprised that the leader of the Labour Party believes “communist” is a critical term?
SPEAKER: No, I don’t think we’ll let that go.
Hon David Seymour: Sorry, comrade!
SPEAKER: We’re just going to come to order. Everyone might find everything highly amusing; you’re just taking up your own time.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Is he as Prime Minister satisfied that Shane Jones’ comments are consistent with Cabinet Manual requirements around Ministers not criticising the judiciary?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Yes.
