Source: New Zealand Parliament – Hansard
SPEAKER’S RULINGS
Contributions from Gallery—Rules and Practice
SPEAKER: Members, I wish to address a situation that arose in the House last night on the occasion of the third reading of the Whakatōhea Claims Settlement Bill. The Assistant Speaker interrupted a kaumātua in the gallery who was speaking prior to the performance of a waiata to celebrate the third reading. According to the Standing Orders, the Assistant Speaker was correct in doing so—the practice of the House since the 1990s has accommodated celebratory contributions such as karanga and waiata, but not contributions in the nature of a speech, such as a whaikōrero. See Speaker’s ruling 11/2. An important principle underlies that practice, which is that the House is the forum for elected members to speak and represent the diverse views of the people.
The incident affected a momentous occasion on the passing of the bill, which was unfortunate. It was also unfortunate that the Assistant Speaker was placed in that situation. The ruling I just mentioned notes that the Speaker presides on such occasions in light of the mood among members present. It also provides flexibility for the Speaker to agree beforehand to celebratory contributions.
I ask that Ministers and members, when facilitating arrangements for people to attend an event in the House such as a settlement bill, discuss with attendees what celebrations are intended, so that the tikanga of the House and of the parties to the settlement can be aligned. This was not fully disclosed on this occasion.
In the future, greater clarity about what is agreed would allow the presiding officer to know what to expect, and to ensure things run smoothly. It also will enable those attending to understand what to do and when.
Ultimately, it is for the Speaker to maintain order and preside in a way that facilitates the House’s business, guided by the Standing Orders. Members should support presiding officers in doing so. It is highly disorderly for members to demand apologies from presiding officers when they are applying the rules and practice of the House. I strongly advise, where members consider the House’s rules and practice need to evolve, those members should address a proposal to that effect to the Standing Orders Committee.
Rt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition): Point of order, Mr Speaker. With regard to the ruling that you have just made, I have been both a whip, a Leader of the House, and an Opposition member of Parliament, and in the entire time I have been here very supportive of the Treaty settlement process and have worked—including with you in your previous roles—to ensure that those occasions were celebratory in nature, that the mana of the House was upheld and the mana of the people who came here for the third readings was upheld.
On many occasions, those who have sung waiata from the gallery have also engaged in karakia as part of that waiata—it is not a new practice. What happened yesterday was not new; it has happened many, many times before. I have never seen—I wasn’t in the House when it happened, but I have never seen a Speaker interrupt that in the way that we saw yesterday.
Whilst I accept the ruling that you have made, and I don’t wish to challenge you or your ruling, I do want to make sure that in the future we don’t undermine what is an occasion where the Parliament comes together in the spirit of unanimity to support the Treaty settlements process with something like that happening again. I don’t think the mana of the House was upheld, but I don’t think the mana of the people in the gallery were being upheld either. And I think the spirit of the third reading was somewhat undermined by what then unfolded.
SPEAKER: Well, I thank the member for his contribution. It largely is in line with the ruling that I’ve just made.
Hon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader—Green): Point of order. I do thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I, too, don’t disagree with the technicalities of the ruling that you have made and don’t wish to challenge you on the ruling at all. I have seen successive Speakers—I believe including yourself—have the respect and the wisdom and the discretion of understanding that the stand that was made yesterday by a rangatira of Whakatōhea was a mana-uplifting stand for this House and was a respect for this House and all of its representatives in it on the passing of a very significant bill that, after 100-plus years of raupatu and Crown breaching of their lands, asking for some minutes or seconds of a whakamana mihi to this House.
I would have expected that there is a basic minimum cultural understanding that the discretion allows and understands the vein and the wairua of what was being offered. While I also take on board you have offered a pathway for us to have our visitors and manuhiri far more prepared, there may be a longer conversation about how the rules of this House can also work. We’ve seen spontaneous karanga happen in this House, haka and waiata, but in the spirit of what was being passed at that time, we have allowed that to go through.
My last point—thank you, Mr Speaker—is that we have seen the rules be fiddled in here on the floor of this House, including every day in question time, with some quite weird points of order. I know we want to uphold the mana of the House, but I ask us: are we always consistent in that? Thank you.
SPEAKER: Well, thank you. I think the member makes the point that there is a pathway. I make the point again that there was communications that were not full, and that the disclosure of all that was to be stated was not known to the presiding officer at the time.
RAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader—Te Pāti Māori): Speaking to the point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I’m not going to challenge you on the Standing Orders and I understand that your ruling mentions karanga, but I will challenge you on tikanga. Karanga is not only reserved for women—and those who are representative of iwi who use karanga and waerea to be able to do that would attest to that and affirm that that is actually a common practice where karanga and waerea are used in the same vein. This is the challenge to you, it’s about tikanga and whether the Assistant Speaker at the time would have ended up in that predicament if she had used the tools that are available to her to ensure that she was getting the cultural advice that the Speaker deserves to have. This is the issue we have. It’s still a breach of tikanga. It may not be a breach of Standing Orders, but it’s absolutely a breach of tikanga to ask somebody to sit down whilst doing a waerea or a karanga. That’s the point I’d like to make today.
SPEAKER: Well, thank you for that, and I’m sure that you will want to discuss that with the Standing Orders Committee when the opportunity arises.
Hon SHANE JONES (NZ First): Point of order. Your ruling has been made. When the inevitable discussions take place, either this is a House of Representatives serving the primary purpose of us who are democratically elected, or circuitously it’s going to change. It cannot change and should not change unless we abide by what you have to say. I want to share, sir, with you one thing. I personally sent a message to Whakatōhea, as a long serving member of this House: “By all means, sing your waiata. If you depart from the waiata template, you will strike problems.” I think the situation reflects both poor communication but also a creeping level of change in the House that has not been mandated within the rules of the House.
Hon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour): Mr Speaker—
SPEAKER: Well, hang on. We could go on for a while here. Remember that I have made a ruling and your contribution will need to be in the context of that. I call on the Hon Willie Jackson, with a point of order.
Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I heard your ruling. This is a very important kaupapa for our people. I was listening to Minister Jones. The tikanga of this House has changed considerably through the years. We never had babies being nursed in the Speaker’s Chair before—never.
SPEAKER: We may not for some time in the future!
Hon WILLIE JACKSON: We never had. We now no longer wear ties in this House.
SPEAKER: Well, that’s something which you changed too.
Hon WILLIE JACKSON: We now have waiata being sung from the gallery, Mr Speaker. My question to you—and, again, I respect what you’re saying—is: what place does our tikanga play in this House? That’s the question, Mr Speaker, and I apologise that we haven’t been able to have a private audience with you to have a good kōrero about this. But this is an overriding question for us, as Māori. When we have a rangatira insulted like that, as he was yesterday—
Hon Shane Jones: Come on, Willie, you’re not at Oxford now!
Hon WILLIE JACKSON: —we don’t want to be listening to Shane Jones’ bloody nonsense.
SPEAKER: That sort of comment kind of starts to disrupt the order of the House and also the intent of what’s said here. I make it very clear in what I said today that there is a place for this discussion, and that’s where this discussion should take place.
Hon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader—Green): Point of order.
SPEAKER: A final point of order from the Hon Marama Davidson.
Hon MARAMA DAVIDSON: Thank you. It is a final point, it’s both in response to Mr Jones, but you made a very valid point, Mr Speaker, about the order of the House. My final plea is that the disorder was actually created when the Assistant Speaker failed to use her discretion to allow for the mihi to go through. The disorder and the escalation actually began as a result of many other MPs recognising the harm of her call.
SPEAKER: Yeah, with respect, this is not a place to determine that. I’ve made a ruling, and, as far as the House is concerned, that is the end of the matter. There is an open door for all of these discussions to take place at the Standing Orders Committee, which will be convened in the next short while.
