Source: New Zealand Parliament – Hansard
ORAL QUESTIONS
QUESTIONS TO MINISTERS
Question No. 1—Prime Minister
1. CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government’s statements and actions?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): Yes, particularly this Government’s economic recovery plan. This afternoon, the Minister of Tourism is releasing the first phase of the Tourism Industry Transformation Plan at the Tourism Export Council of New Zealand’s annual conference in Nelson. While the tourism sector has been particularly hard hit by COVID-19, we’re starting to see the industry begin to recover. In the week to 26 July, 43,600 people travelled from Australia, and travellers from the UK and the USA continue to increase, with their card spend already back to 2019 levels. There is a long way to go and significant challenges to overcome. However, we are well positioned to deal with the global economic uncertainty and disruption, and we will continue to work along with industry as we recover.
Christopher Luxon: Does she stand by her statement on welfare “Let’s focus on the reality and the evidence, rather than the politics”, and, if so, can she confirm there are over 50,000 more people on the jobseeker benefit today compared to when she became Prime Minister?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I do stand by my statements, and I also stand by the figures that I provided yesterday, including that we’ve seen a record level of young people move off benefit and into work, with over 35,000 young people aged 18 to 24 moving off benefit and into employment last year. I also stand by the statements I’ve made that we should focus on removing barriers into employment, training, and education. That is exactly what we have done as a Government. And I stand by my statement that that should be, I would hope, the focus of everyone in this House, rather than labelling young people as taking a free ride.
Christopher Luxon: That’s not right. When she said in relation to the high number of job seekers “We haven’t made changes to what sanctions are available there for use”, does she accept there is a difference between sanctions being available and sanctions actually being used?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The point that I was making is those sanctions continue to be available to the extended number of front-line workers that we now have, because, when we came into office, we recognised that the amount of time they were spending on job placement had gone from 50 percent to 14 percent. That is the problem with the Opposition: when they call the front-line workers who are placing people into work “bureaucrats”, that is exactly why the National Party, when they were in Government, ran those numbers down, and why we had to build them back up to make sure that we get ourselves into a position where we now have young people going into jobs rather than sitting back, dropping the numbers, and then blaming young people for their unemployment.
Christopher Luxon: Should people on the jobseeker benefit who don’t take steps to make themselves employable have their benefit reduced?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As I’ve said, the policy remains the same. It would also be worth reflecting on what has occurred to our employment numbers, because the member seems to be implying that simply because we have increases in jobseeker, that means we have somehow a massive change in attitude and our young people don’t want to work anymore. I disagree. What we have is an economic crisis, and, in the wake of the global financial crisis, we saw a similar increase for young people impacted and on benefit, as we have seen with the pandemic. What has changed is that that member believes that it is the fault of young people rather than what we’re experiencing in the economy.
Christopher Luxon: We care about them. [Interruption] Why was the number—
SPEAKER: Order! Now, the member should not be interjecting on her own leader.
Christopher Luxon: Why was the number of sanctions applied in the June quarter this year 50 percent lower than the same period in 2019, despite the number of job seekers being 25 percent higher?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Because they would have been fulfilling obligations rather than taking “a free ride”. Again, 35,000 young people went into work and off benefit. We have now 215,000 people since we’ve been in Government who have taken up apprenticeships. We have 3,600 young people in employment and training through He Poutama Rangatahi, 5,000 in employment with Mana in Mahi. When I see a reduction in sanctions, my assumption is it’s because young people are fulfilling their obligations, rather than the National Party’s assumption that young people are suddenly being given a free ride.
Christopher Luxon: We care about them—we care about them! Does she support enforcing the existing—[Interruption]
SPEAKER: Order! Order! [Interruption] Order! Right. The member shouldn’t have reacted that way; he should have asked his question. The Government member shouldn’t have reacted to the inappropriate reactions, so we’ll sort of square it all off as even and we’ll start again and we’ll behave ourselves, if we can.
Christopher Luxon: Does she support enforcing the existing benefit sanctions regime?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The sanctions regime has remained the same, and we continue to support our Ministry of Social Development workforce to utilise them. Again, rather than simply making the assumption that young people are not fulfilling their obligations, it would be worth the member’s while in looking at what the barriers are to work for our young people. That is why we, for instance, have funded driver licences for the 70 percent of entry level jobs that require them. It’s why we’ve made the first year of trades training and education free, to try and get young people into training opportunities. It’s why we brought back the training incentive allowance, which the last Government got rid of. And it’s why we’ve increased the amount of part-time work you can do so that you can support that transition. The member immediately assumes that all our young people are useless. I disagree.
Christopher Luxon: Did the Government tell Work and Income to reduce the use of sanctions for people on the Jobseeker benefit who don’t meet their obligations to find work?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We have used the same obligations as the last Government did, and we have seen the same increase in young people having to access the benefit after an economic shock. The starting point, on this side of the House, is how do we keep up those record level numbers of young people going into work, rather than assume that young people won’t take those opportunities.
Christopher Luxon: If the Government didn’t tell Work and Income to reduce the use of sanctions, why are so few sanctions being applied, despite the number of job seekers being so high?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Is it completely impossible for the member to understand that young people actually will be fulfilling their obligations but may not have the skills required to get into those jobs? They may, for instance, in some cases, have a history that means that they are facing barriers to work. It speaks volumes that the immediate assumption by the member is that they’re not applying sanctions, rather than the fact they haven’t done anything to attract them.
Christopher Luxon: Who is right: the Minister for Social Development and Employment, who has claimed National’s welfare policies won’t work, or the Prime Minister, who has claimed National’s welfare policies already exist?
Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Minister Sepuloni has pointed out that labelling and blaming young people for the economic circumstances we find ourselves in will do nothing to support young people. I agree with her. She has also pointed out we have job coaching; we have incentives; we also have training incentives; employment subsidies for employers; and, the best of all, record departures from benefits.
